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Hear me out
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kepplah



Joined: 06 Feb 2005

PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2005 9:55 pm    Post subject: Hear me out Reply with quote

Ok, you locked my thread. I have opened a new one because I had something left to say. We were having a civil argument, I asked a couple questions, some which were answered, some which were not. I would like to hear an admin/mods view of this situation.

I understand it's bad practice to continue a topic once it's been locked. But nothing was proved. You just said this is the way it is because such and such said.

I promise not to interfere with your fun and bother you anymore. Move this thread or append it to the other one, but please leave it open.

I am persistant in this issue because I have a project in the works that I am sure many of you would enjoy, but if I am not welcome to announce it here, I would like to know so I dont bother.

Kyle

Austin wrote:
especially when one of the members listed, Kevin Blocksidge, has a bad record around these here parts.


I had been wondering if that played a role. But you asured me it was not in your first reply? Which is it?

I know its a rule. I can read. I am saying its a dumb rule that should be changed. What is hard to understand about that?
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Duchessa
The Queen [MOD]


Joined: 03 Feb 2005
Location: The Arctic Circle

PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What in my message about "send me or another staff member a PM" was hard to understand?

I locked it down because I don't think there's anything more to add. We have our rules. You may like them or not like them, but they are still our rules. If you plan to break the rules, you might as well go and play in another sandbox. I can be really nice, but I can also be Not Nice if our rules are broken time after time. Trust me on that one.

If I had found the thread with the link, I would have deleted it as well. So would the other mods/admins. And I don't have any old gruges towards you or any of the other people behind the site.

Once again - if you think that there's something in the CoC that should be changed, send a PM to one of our admins. Don't break the rule just to prove your point. That kind of action doesn't make you a person that the admins are likely to listen to. Get my point?
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Denise
Herder of Cats [VET]


Joined: 02 Feb 2005

PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not a dumb rule. You never experienced the clutter that appeared in multiple forums before it became a rule. People would sign up just to promote their new website, they never came back to read feedback, we wouldn't hear from them again. This constitutes being used as a 'billboard'. It does not constitute a discussion, which is what message boards are all about.

Those who begin new threads to further an argument from a locked thread don't garner a very good reputation, either. We hear you ~ you don't like the rule. Sorry, it stays. Further arguing will not change that.
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Padawan716
The Comeback Kid


Joined: 04 Feb 2005
Location: not at the o2 arena on dec 10 :(

PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing I was going to add was that IMO making your first post an advertisement is not good netiquette... or whatever you'd call that. I enjoy the site and everything, but maybe waiting a bit and getting to know the forum before you advertise is a better idea.
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Admiral Giddens



Joined: 05 Feb 2005
Location: Silver Creek, GA

PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya, I posted pre.classic-space.com on the temporary FBTB site not long ago and it met no resistance and was given positive reviews by folks. Seems odd. Yes I do understand there's some bad blood brewin between personalities and I don't condone some stuff done by friend and (well I can't say foe cuz I have none here)... but I'm confused by the rule. It seems the rule was against folks postin to sell stuff but postin' your own website that has MOCs on it isn't that different than postin a MOC is it?

Just askin' questions, not askin for anything, and if I posted in error on the other site I do apologize.
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Padawan716
The Comeback Kid


Joined: 04 Feb 2005
Location: not at the o2 arena on dec 10 :(

PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Temp FBTB was in no way related to FBTB forums... that's why there was no link to the temp forums on the FBTB main page.

EDIT: Also, it was nicknamed temp FBTB, but it's name was changed to "Eblock village" so there would be no confusing the temp forum as an official FBTB thing.


Last edited by Padawan716 on Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Repoort
Man of Many Reds


Joined: 06 Feb 2005
Location: California Status: Groovy

PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Giddens, the temp forum wasn't ran or even publically acknowledged by the admins at FBTB. Rules were different.

What he said.
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kepplah



Joined: 06 Feb 2005

PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*I* didn't break any rules. Maybe crossed my line of welcome, but that's fine. I have used the PM system in phpBB and find it very clunky and difficult. I consider this a public issue and welcome others' opinions. If you insist in making this private tell me where I can find an email address.

I looked at the userlist. No one has an email listed. I am aware mine is hidden as well, I will fix that in a second.
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Duchessa
The Queen [MOD]


Joined: 03 Feb 2005
Location: The Arctic Circle

PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can send a PM to anyone by checking out their profile and click on the PM icon. Really easy.
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Denise
Herder of Cats [VET]


Joined: 02 Feb 2005

PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Admiral Giddens wrote:
...postin' your own website that has MOCs on it isn't that different than postin a MOC is it?


If you'd like to post several pictures, or thumbs linking to full-size pics of your MOCs, and then say 'I have more pictures on my site if you're interested' and give the link, we have no problems with that. What we're trying to avoid are those one-post wonders who sign up and say 'hey everyone, come visit my website, it's great, lots of pictures of [insert off-topic items here]!!!!!!!!!!'


Last edited by Denise on Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
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kepplah



Joined: 06 Feb 2005

PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Denise wrote:
It's not a dumb rule. You never experienced the clutter that appeared in multiple forums before it became a rule. People would sign up just to promote their new website, they never came back to read feedback, we wouldn't hear from them again. This constitutes being used as a 'billboard'. It does not constitute a discussion, which is what message boards are all about.

Those who begin new threads to further an argument from a locked thread don't garner a very good reputation, either. We hear you ~ you don't like the rule. Sorry, it stays. Further arguing will not change that.


Thank you for responding, I appreciate that. Some people have listed "making your first post an advertisement is bad play" as a reason. Tim Deering was a user on the old board, and he made the announcement.

I'm sorry for opening a second thread, but I was not given my chance to speak. I wont carry this out of this thread.
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Admiral Giddens



Joined: 05 Feb 2005
Location: Silver Creek, GA

PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AH, so had I posted my PCS Lego site here I would have been asked to remove it? Just checking because there are more additions to the site to assist the community in building PCS and other theme styles. If that is true I'll not post them here.
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kepplah



Joined: 06 Feb 2005

PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Denise wrote:
Admiral Giddens wrote:
...postin' your own website that has MOCs on it isn't that different than postin a MOC is it?


If you'd like to post several pictures, or thumbs linking to full-size pics of your MOCs, and then say 'I have more pictures on my site if you're interested' and give the link, we have no problems with that. What we're trying to avoid are those one-post wonders who sign up and say 'hey everyone, come visit my website, it's great, lots of pictures of [insert off-topic items here]!!!!!!!!!!'


That makes perfect sense. I even agree with you there. But wouldn't it have been more productive to have told this to Tim in the original thread, rather than locking it?
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brickfrenzy



Joined: 06 Feb 2005
Location: Westlake, OH

PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, when the Star Wars licence ends next year, this place will be quite the ghost town if non Star Wars MOCs and web pages aren't allowed.

Good luck with that.
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Duchessa
The Queen [MOD]


Joined: 03 Feb 2005
Location: The Arctic Circle

PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, we'll all die a slow, horrible death.

Thanks for your positive contribution.
*ironical statement*
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Zombie Austin
OSHI-! [zMOD]


Joined: 04 Feb 2005
Location: H E Double Hockey Sticks

PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the troll. Don't let the door hit you on your ten-year-old fanny on the way out.

OK, maybe that was a little harsh.

Quit trolling or I'll beat you with a frying pan. Gah, still no good.

Stop. Rude. Please.

... that was better.
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brickfrenzy



Joined: 06 Feb 2005
Location: Westlake, OH

PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

10 year old behind? *snicker*

I have a beautiful wife, a 9 month old son, and a fair number of MOCs that you may never even dream of being able to build. Including one that got a fair bit of positive spin around here a couple of years ago.

I'm simply wondering why you guys want to be so restrictive. If you're so concerned about link topics, just make a classified ads forum or something to put them in. Best of both worlds. The posts are isolated, but people with interesting pages can post to try and expand the horizons around here.

But that's just my immature, trolling, rude suggestion.
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Duchessa
The Queen [MOD]


Joined: 03 Feb 2005
Location: The Arctic Circle

PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*sigh*

I'm really tired of locking threads already, but that's my job.

Once again - if there's something really, really important that you want to add: send me or another staff member a PM.
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Duchessa
The Queen [MOD]


Joined: 03 Feb 2005
Location: The Arctic Circle

PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alright people - I think that everyone has calmed down a bit. So I'm going to unlock this thread, so that everyone who wants to discuss this can make their voice heard in public.

Just keep it nice and civil, okay?
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BigDog



Joined: 04 Feb 2005
Location: West of wherever your at.

PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
AH, so had I posted my PCS Lego site here I would have been asked to remove it? Just checking because there are more additions to the site to assist the community in building PCS and other theme styles. If that is true I'll not post them here.


There is a way to post a site here and that is what Denise is getting at. We don't accept topics that say here is a new site come look at it. However, if you create a topic that says here is pictures of a new ship I built and if you want to see additional pictures go to this site...that would be accepted.

So if you were thinking of posting in the future...come check out pre-classic-space because we added new features...expect it to get locked. However, if you are posting to say that I have new pictures of customs and you provide a link to them on pre-classic-space they would probably be allowed.

Again we are talking a fine line here, but you have to be aware of the difference between showing an MOC and advertising a site...even if it is a lego site.
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Denise
Herder of Cats [VET]


Joined: 02 Feb 2005

PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh goodie, now I can respond to some of these issues!! :D

FBTB will grow. Without guidelines, things will get out of hand, no doubt about it. Some feel they're too restrictive? What it boils down to is, RESPECT. For each other, for the public nature of this bulletin board. We're just trying to head off problems before they come up, and have something to point to when someone says they didn't know they were out of line.

The FBTB community was created and dedicated specifically for/to LEGO Star Wars. The other LEGO topic was put in as a courtesy to the members who are interested in the LEGO company's other products as well. We have no idea where we'll be in 2007 when the LEGO license expires, but we only paid the domain registration through that year, so....

Anyway, glad I refreshed the thread before continuing ~ BigDog just said what I was going to end with, although he may have said it better Wink


edit: brickfrenzy, please feel free post some pics of your MOCs in the LEGO forum (I'm assuming the customs are non-SW), surely lots of people would like to see them. I hope you see the difference between stupid advertising, and steering people to pictures you have on a personal page.
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Fez



Joined: 04 Feb 2005

PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Different Rules on Different Fourms? This Concept confuses me.
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BigDog



Joined: 04 Feb 2005
Location: West of wherever your at.

PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fez, I'm not sure what you are refering to but if you are talking about the Temp FBTB forums to the official FBTB forums....basically the code of conduct for FBTB was not strictly followed at the temporary forums but now that we have the official forum back everyone needs to follow these rules again.
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Big Z
Undead!


Joined: 03 Feb 2005
Location: I AM THE HORDEZ

PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Braden, bro, I think Fez was kidding. Smile
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BigDog



Joined: 04 Feb 2005
Location: West of wherever your at.

PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

man I knew I forgot something when I left the house today...I'll have to go back and get my sense of humor hat. Razz
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kepplah



Joined: 06 Feb 2005

PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Denise wrote:
Oh goodie, now I can respond to some of these issues!! :D

FBTB will grow. Without guidelines, things will get out of hand, no doubt about it. Some feel they're too restrictive? What it boils down to is, RESPECT. For each other, for the public nature of this bulletin board. We're just trying to head off problems before they come up, and have something to point to when someone says they didn't know they were out of line.


I agree. Respect is good. Especially on the internet where it's easy to be misinterperted. But that is part of the original problem. I felt the site, the six builders, and myself were not shown respect when the annoucement thread, and then my first thread, were closed without a chance for us to respond with changes or clarifications.

maddog wrote:
There is a way to post a site here and that is what Denise is getting at. We don't accept topics that say here is a new site come look at it. However, if you create a topic that says here is pictures of a new ship I built and if you want to see additional pictures go to this site...that would be accepted.


That's fine, but your rules were not clear. And no one bothered to clarify this until I was persistant in asking why. I just ask for some explanations before an action is taken. If you feel there is the risk of more problems developing, give an ultimatum and explain why.

This brings me to this post:
http://www.fbtbforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=101

Can anyone explain to me why Tim's post has been closed? I cannot come up with any reason other than it's relation to the closed threads of yesterday. And if that is the reason, shame on that mod, if not, I'd be happy to know why. If a mod is going to close a thread, I find it incredibly bad practice not to say why. I did not complain when duchess closed the other threads because she gave a reason. But this time there is no information as to who closed it or why at all it was closed.

Nothing in that post is violating any rules, I made sure to tell the team your procedures, and asked them to follow the instructions Denise gave in this post:

Denise wrote:

If you'd like to post several pictures, or thumbs linking to full-size pics of your MOCs, and then say 'I have more pictures on my site if you're interested' and give the link, we have no problems with that. What we're trying to avoid are those one-post wonders who sign up and say 'hey everyone, come visit my website, it's great, lots of pictures of [insert off-topic items here]!!!!!!!!!!'
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Denise
Herder of Cats [VET]


Joined: 02 Feb 2005

PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By 'the announcement' thread, do you mean the one started by Tim Deering in the LEGO forum? (Which *I* deleted just today, btw.) If so, then I have two points.

1) Yes, on the surface and to those not familiar with FBTB history, it did appear to be capricious. However, Mr Deering has proven time and again that he has nothing but hostility for FBTB and contempt for our rules and our administration. This apparently was a 'consider the source' action taken by whatever moderator removed the link. Perhaps an explanation was in order. The mod team will discuss it.

2) Given that we know how Mr Deering feels about us, how could we not interpret that post as anything but a deliberate attempt to undermine our reopening? Or anything but giving us the virtual finger? You must admit, he did it in exactly the manner that flouts the 'not your billboard' rule. I swear I could hear the sneers from here.

Now, if I was wrong in my interpretation of Mr Deering's intent, I apologize. However, I don't think anyone who witnessed his scathing posts against us in the past would fault me for the mistake.


You are correct that the rules as posted in the CoC were not clear; that has been addressed ~ I modified the CoC today.


I can't say why Tim's MOC post was closed, except for the same reasons given above. It did seem like a gratuitous way to plug the website a second time after the link had been removed, and again, anyone familiar with FBTB history most likely saw it as another example of him thumbing his nose at us.
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Big Z
Undead!


Joined: 03 Feb 2005
Location: I AM THE HORDEZ

PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^ What she said.

I saw that thread exactly how Denise (and many others) saw it. Deering has proven over and over again that he doesn't think highly of this place at all. In the last incarnation of our forum, the ONLY time he would ever reply was to call someone out for doing something that he thought was wrong, or to post an obligatory "teehee" post after one of his buddies called someone out in the same way. It's stupid, and it's not welcome here.

Plain and simple: We have rules. They're different from other places. Whoop-dee-doo. Any blatant nose-thumbing I see towards those rules, and I will lock or delete as the need necessitates (so long as my bosses don't tell me to do otherwise). Them's the breaks, so get over it and move on.
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Fez



Joined: 04 Feb 2005

PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was wondering why you guys even needed to come and Post here in the first place. You have, ohhhh let me see, CSF, LUGNET, and just about every other Lego Fourm to adverstise your site. But you choose FBTB, a place that says (IN THE RULES, I MIGHT ADD) that you cannot Advertise here. It doesn't help that Members of the LUGNET Community have come here before, only to act like Jerks. So why come Here?
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kepplah



Joined: 06 Feb 2005

PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Denise wrote:
By 'the announcement' thread, do you mean the one started by Tim Deering in the LEGO forum? (Which *I* deleted just today, btw.) If so, then I have two points.

Yes

Denise wrote:

1) Yes, on the surface and to those not familiar with FBTB history, it did appear to be capricious. However, Mr Deering has proven time and again that he has nothing but hostility for FBTB and contempt for our rules and our administration. This apparently was a 'consider the source' action taken by whatever moderator removed the link. Perhaps an explanation was in order. The mod team will discuss it.

2) Given that we know how Mr Deering feels about us, how could we not interpret that post as anything but a deliberate attempt to undermine our reopening? Or anything but giving us the virtual finger? You must admit, he did it in exactly the manner that flouts the 'not your billboard' rule. I swear I could hear the sneers from here.

Now, if I was wrong in my interpretation of Mr Deering's intent, I apologize. However, I don't think anyone who witnessed his scathing posts against us in the past would fault me for the mistake.


I'm sorry that Tim has been a problem in the past. Perhaps he should have asked one of the others to make the announcement, but his intent was just to show off his new site that he was proud of. The wording was strong, but its the same as was used on the other 3 forums as well. The timing was merely a coincidence that the Forums have returned and the site has been completed in the same week. An explanation at the time of locking would have gone a long way, and we could have avoided the threads I began.

Denise wrote:

You are correct that the rules as posted in the CoC were not clear; that has been addressed ~ I modified the CoC today.


Thank you.

Denise wrote:

I can't say why Tim's MOC post was closed, except for the same reasons given above. It did seem like a gratuitous way to plug the website a second time after the link had been removed, and again, anyone familiar with FBTB history most likely saw it as another example of him thumbing his nose at us.


Well, we'd all know if the mod who closed it would tell us, or had done so originally. Even considering Tim's past antics, blindly closing the thread with no explanation helps no one. Would this mod please step forward and explain instead of hiding behind a shroud of anonymity. Maybe he did want a critique, some of the FBTB members believed that and gave valuable feedback, some continued the childish bickering that has got in the way of our discussion in this and other threads.

I have maintained my calm, and have not made a single personal or overall accusation of anyone or any group of people. Yet I continue to see those directed outward.
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