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Trooper Rank Un-Theory
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Repoort
Man of Many Reds


Joined: 06 Feb 2005
Location: California Status: Groovy

PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 1:18 pm    Post subject: Trooper Rank Un-Theory Reply with quote

I was thinking, the clones started out just white, with four superior ranks to ditinguish lietenant, commander, pilot, etcetera. Now the clones have many different paint jobs for all sorts of military positions.

The thing is, if the clones eventually "evolve" into stormtroopers, and add in more variations of different hosts, (to make up for the varying sizes) then why do none of the stormtroopers have colored ranks? Why would they do away with that? It doesn't make much sense to me. I mean it does but it doesn't.
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Morbie19
Undead!


Joined: 05 Feb 2005
Location: Virginia

PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My guess would be that the Republic was "nice" enough to display ranks while the Empire didn't want anyone to so obviously stand out and feel special.

Maybe?

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deathstickman



Joined: 05 Feb 2005
Location: Boston,MA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that technology got better, so the ranks are now displayed on the HUD.
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RecluceMage



Joined: 22 Feb 2005
Location: Santa Rosa, CA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I were a rebel, I would just love knowing that the guy in red was the commander, he's the one I would aim for first!
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Big Z
Undead!


Joined: 03 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it has to do with order. Once the Emperor rises to power, he changed things around, so that all Stormies look the same, in order to keep with the whole "perfect world" thing.

'Course there are exceptions. Shoulder pauldrons, por ejemplo.
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Pepa Quin
The Falconer


Joined: 04 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How about because the prequel trilogy has a much bigger budget then the original trilogy?

*ducks*
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deathstickman



Joined: 05 Feb 2005
Location: Boston,MA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*Misses* Shoot! Razz
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bruceywan



Joined: 05 Feb 2005
Location: Los Angeles

PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think adding some virtual red paint onto a CG model really qualifies the gap in budget between the two trilogies... : )

Like Collin said, having uniformity and equality and order is part of what makes the empire so "great," whereas in the Republic there was probably more of an attachment to the heroes of the war, and having specialized troops and color markings helped with that, I'm sure. Plus, when you've been at it for two decades, you probably can trim the excess and hone in on what works.
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Repoort
Man of Many Reds


Joined: 06 Feb 2005
Location: California Status: Groovy

PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bruceywan wrote:
Plus, when you've been at it for two decades, you probably can trim the excess and hone in on what works.


Yeah, like TIE Fighters...woot!
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DPrime



Joined: 20 Mar 2005

PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 8:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
My guess would be that the Republic was "nice" enough to display ranks while the Empire didn't want anyone to so obviously stand out and feel special.


Ummm, close I think!

Quote:
I think it has to do with order. Once the Emperor rises to power, he changed things around, so that all Stormies look the same, in order to keep with the whole "perfect world" thing.


Interesting theory, but I don't think the Emperor would have much to do with this decision, to be honest... I think it's the same reason today's platoon commanders use rifles and wear the same uniform as the rest of the soldiers do - because officers make perfect targets. Once the leadership is gone, armies lose cohesion.

They wouldn't have known that in the Clone Wars - remember, the Republic didn't even have an army. All these "lessons learned" in battle would have been forgotten.
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michealearlwillard



Joined: 08 Feb 2005
Location: Kent, WA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yep, stormies as imperial officers do, also carry code cylinders for rank identification. Although "Squad leaders, who lead units of seven troopers, wear orange shoulder pauldrons." As quoted from the visual dictionary, I also beleive I've seen black pauldrons. Also: "Officers in field units may wear colored shoulder pauldrons as high-visibility rank indicators."
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sith4ever99



Joined: 27 Feb 2005

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

michealearlwillard wrote:
yep, stormies as imperial officers do, also carry code cylinders for rank identification. Although "Squad leaders, who lead units of seven troopers, wear orange shoulder pauldrons." As quoted from the visual dictionary, I also beleive I've seen black pauldrons. Also: "Officers in field units may wear colored shoulder pauldrons as high-visibility rank indicators."


correct. There are orange, white, and black armor that I have seen. Most of the time it's only seen in comics though
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Man of Many Reds


Joined: 06 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's also gray.
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Senator Theant



Joined: 05 Feb 2005
Location: San Jose, California

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 3:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just my thoughts . . .

Is this conversation based on the entire Star Wars universe or just the movies? EU (Expanded Universe) makes for remarkable detail-filling, but to me its not "Star Wars" enough. Course, to exclude the EU would be to leave all original thought and creativity from our discussions. So I think Ill just accept it.

I agree with those posters who say that the "ranks" in the PT are eliminated in the OT for uniformity purposes. But also because Lucas himself doesnt want the Stormtroopers in the OT to become the story.

Imagine, hypothetically, if a given Jedi in the PT were to befriend a Clone Commander. In order to know that that Clone Commander was an individual, he carried unique markings on his gear. The story of how the Jedi and the Clone were split apart would make for great drama. That's the story of the PT.

In the OT, Stormtroopers are no longer part of the story. They serve more as a backdrop, a canvas for which the legacy of a hero (or group of heroes)is defined. This is the story of the OT (with very few exceptions).



P.S. I think this has alot to do with why all the Stormtroopers have such bad aim. If they were formidable opponents outside of the PT, they might succeed in actually hurting somebody. And as a kid, Stormtroopers always looked cool but deep down inside I always knew they were dumb goons.
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Opus



Joined: 04 Feb 2005
Location: Austin TX

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since Lucas is going to rerelease these movies again (in 3-D), maybe he could make it a "Special 3-D Edition-of-the-Special-Edition-of-the-Original-Trilogy-Where-Han-Shoots-First" and in doing so he could add color to the stormtroopers.
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Man of Many Reds


Joined: 06 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That reminds me of this:

Repoort wrote:
Firespray wrote:
i think its because after jango died, they couldnt clone him anymore


I think that'd be highly unlikely. Here on Earth we have the technology to keep DNA around for hundreds of years if we wanted to. I see no reason why they would just throw it away after Jango died, seeing as they already has his consent.

Though I also don't understand why the Kaminoans would switch the host (says Lucas) when Jango was perfectly fine. Maybe it was just too expensive? Or should cost even be a factor? Ah, maybe that's why.

Perhaps Kamino's cloning facilities had run out of funds, due to the Empire, to continue the training and enhancement of the new-host clones. So that's why Stormtroopers seem to have bad aim.

Similar to TIE Fighters, one couldn't harm a flea but several thousand shooting in the same direction are bound to hit something.
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BigDog



Joined: 04 Feb 2005
Location: West of wherever your at.

PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2005 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Republic choose quality over quantity, but the empire figured quantity was cheaper then quality. Very Happy

It's also possible that the Kamino cloners didn't support the empire and refused to clone for them so new lower quality clones were used for storm troopers.
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DPrime



Joined: 20 Mar 2005

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 12:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Since Lucas is going to rerelease these movies again (in 3-D), maybe he could make it a "Special 3-D Edition-of-the-Special-Edition-of-the-Original-Trilogy-Where-Han-Shoots-First" and in doing so he could add color to the stormtroopers.


Please don't give him any ideas... Why "fix" something that was bad in the re-releases only to add something else? Leave the Stormtroopers alone.


Quote:
It's also possible that the Kamino cloners didn't support the empire and refused to clone for them so new lower quality clones were used for storm troopers.


I think it's pretty clear that Stormtroopers are NOT clones. That's why Lucas didn't change their voices in the DVDs, as was (horribly) speculated. For some reason, cloning stopped (on a mass scale anyway) after the Clone Wars. Besides, the Empire would have had massive amounts of conscripts and volunteers for their army, and wouldn't have to pay the (presumably) prohibitive price the Kaminoans were asking.
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Padawan716
The Comeback Kid


Joined: 04 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Probably because the clones got old too fast. According to one source, only 1/3 of the original battle-ready clones were still alive during ROTS.
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DPrime



Joined: 20 Mar 2005

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 2:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Probably because the clones got old too fast. According to one source, only 1/3 of the original battle-ready clones were still alive during ROTS.


Maybe - accelerated growth may have had side-effects, such as a shorter life-span.

More likely though is that they got killed too fast...
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Man of Many Reds


Joined: 06 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's another question, what happens to the "seperatists" once Palpy takes over the republic army? Something has to happen to the Niemoidians because obviously there's no BDs left.
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Padawan716
The Comeback Kid


Joined: 04 Feb 2005
Location: not at the o2 arena on dec 10 :(

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Repoort wrote:
There's another question, what happens to the "seperatists" once Palpy takes over the republic army? Something has to happen to the Niemoidians because obviously there's no BDs left.


Well, to put it plainly... er... well, maybe... um. Hmmm... ... read spoilers. Wink

but yes, *something* does happen to them, like the *stuff* that happens to most of the Jedi. In a very similar *fashion.* Possibly *old age.*
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Man of Many Reds


Joined: 06 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah I haven't gotten around to reading much lately. But it sounds cool.
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Old Republic
Master Jedi [VET]


Joined: 05 Feb 2005
Location: Calgary Alberta Canada

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My theory on why Stormtroopers don't have a bunch of different markings. In the late 70's and early 80's GL hadn't learned much about marketing yet. There are so many versions of clones because LFL has learned that it sells more toy, posters, etc.

I apply this theory to 'Why do the Jedi get new fighters? Luke flew around in one x-wing for three movies..." Yeah, not quite the same thing but it helps to see where I'm coming from. Try this one though, 'why does the ARC-170 exist?" For 30 years, I had assumed that the Y-wing was the new, state of the art space fighter during the time of Obi-wan and Anakin. I had really hoped to see the clones cruising around in brand spanking new y-wings in all their glory during the wars.
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Gaia



Joined: 13 Feb 2005
Location: France

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DPrime wrote:
I think it's pretty clear that Stormtroopers are NOT clones.

And they are not.

Stormtroopers are meant to be choosen among the Imperial soldiers recruited on the planets of the Galactic Empire and trained on identified planets, like Carida...

After Palpatine's death, Admiral Thrawn lacked military recruits and used cloning to replace the old normal stormtroopers.
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Gaia



Joined: 13 Feb 2005
Location: France

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sith4ever99 wrote:
correct. There are orange, white, and black armor that I have seen. Most of the time it's only seen in comics though

In "A New Hope", sandtroopers wear orange (officer), white (sergeant) and black (standard) pauldrons.
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Man of Many Reds


Joined: 06 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But some Stromtroopers ARE clones. In one of the Insiders, I forget which issue, they say that the Stormies are Clones, and the height difference is because after a while they used different hosts.
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DPrime



Joined: 20 Mar 2005

PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2005 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the rank thing is explained in a website... can't remember which one it is right now, but it's an excellent site and well thought-out.

Basically, the reason Stormtroopers on Tatooine wore shoulder pauldrons designating rank (commonly known as Sandtroopers) was because they were working with a civilian population. Otherwise, a trooper's rank would show up in a heads-up display from within the mask. In combat situations, it helps that the enemy can not distinguish officers, so they wouldn't wear them.

As far as some of the Stormtroopers being clones, that seems familiar as well... can't remember where I heard it. It'd be cool to think that some "old veterans" of forty or so fought in the Clone Wars and are still around.
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MandalorianCrush



Joined: 12 Feb 2005
Location: Staten Island, NY

PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2005 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what i remember is that stormtroopers are normies mixed with clones. i read in a book or comic that a StormTrooper commander would drop a standard rifle on the ground in a detention camp and the person who killed the other 5 people goin for the gun went on to elite training. this was in StarWars Tales Volume 3. the story was, Trooper.
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DPrime



Joined: 20 Mar 2005

PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
what i remember is that stormtroopers are normies mixed with clones. i read in a book or comic that a StormTrooper commander would drop a standard rifle on the ground in a detention camp and the person who killed the other 5 people goin for the gun went on to elite training. this was in StarWars Tales Volume 3. the story was, Trooper.


That's the kind of crap that compells me to stay away from the Expanded Universe.
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