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Illegal to sell used LEGO's after Feb 10th 2009?
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johnsocal



Joined: 26 Mar 2005

PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:02 pm    Post subject: Illegal to sell used LEGO's after Feb 10th 2009? Reply with quote

There has to some loopholes in this stupid law since the vast majority of LEGO's don't have any paint on them and the paint that is used doesn't have high levels of lead.

http://www.kvue.com/news/top/stories/010609kvue-kids_lead-me.466a87af.html

Quote:
On February 10, 2009 it will be illegal to re-sell any used children's products including toys and clothing. That is according to the U.S. Consumer Protection & Safety Commission who pushed for the new laws after dozens of toys were recalled in 2008 because of lead concerns.

Toys, clothing and other items used by children under 12 will be subjected to lead testing and will have to have labels on them to prove that they have passed inspection.

What is raising the ire of parents and business owners far and wide is what this will mean to clothing, toys and other children products made before February 10, 2009.

Gary Walthall, the owner of Once upon a Child, a resale shop specializing in children's clothing and other items, is afraid that he'll have to close up shop.

Adding to the confusion and frustration is the fact that the U.S. Consumer Products and Safety Commission is not returning calls or e-mails to the countless re-salers and even journalists who have tried in vain to get clarification on what the law means to garage sales and how it will be enforced.


http://www.ktka.com/news/2009/jan/06/childrens_clothing_reselling_becoming_risky_busine/

Quote:

"Not only items manufactured after February the tenth must be in compliance with the new lead standards, but all children's products must be compliant," said Shaffer.

As part of the Consumer Product Safety Improvement Act, any product sold after February 10 must be under the 600 parts per million limit for lead. At that time, all children's products sold must be certified. New products will be certified before being shipped to stores.

But for selling older products, like here at Mommy and Me, or at your next garage sale, the cost of that certification is out of reach.

"The equipment to buy, the XRF guns to do the lead testing, are $35,000," said Shaffer.

As the act stands now, used kids toys and clothing will be considered hazardous. Something as simple as selling a toy becomes a lot more complicated.

"At this point, I am not sure what that impact will be on me. Some resell store owners feel that as of February 10th, if the law is not amended, it will mean that their inventory is all of a sudden 'hazardous,'" said Shaffer.

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ZombieDraykov
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Joined: 07 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saw this over on Eurobricks.

Here's a question...the article points out that "What is raising the ire of parents and business owners far and wide is what this will mean to clothing, toys and other children products made before February 10, 2009."

How would anyone be able to prove that any Bricklink inventory is older than that and who is the burden of proof on? Are individual LEGO pieces going to subject to lead testing and labeling? This is a stupid law. I have no problems protecting the kids and all, but why are toys not subject to recalls in the past going to be subject to this piece of legislation (assuming that's the case).

FYI: Ask a Question Regarding the New CPSC Reauthorization Legislation
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PJcountach



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One word

REVOLUTION
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johnsocal



Joined: 26 Mar 2005

PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess I'll have to pick up some of these so my kids can play LEGO's after Feb 10th Wink


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ZombieSolo
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Joined: 05 Feb 2005

PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No. Without even needing to read more than the title, no. Ignoring the ludicrousy of the idea in general, even if it goes into effect, no. Anyone want to bet against me? Wink
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Zombie Bizzle
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DonSolo wrote:
No. Without even needing to read more than the title, no. Ignoring the ludicrousy of the idea in general, even if it goes into effect, no. Anyone want to bet against me? Wink



I agree with Don. Therefore I will not be betting against you.
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Crazybirdman



Joined: 15 Jan 2008

PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What are stores like Goodwill going to do with all their crap?
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ZombieSolo
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They probably wont be able to sell toys anymore. A lot of thrift store already wont take used stuffed animals because it could be a health hazard, so if this law remains intact by the time it takes effect they'd simply opt to refuse any used toy donations.
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johnsocal



Joined: 26 Mar 2005

PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2008-11-19-phthalate-federalban_N.htm
Quote:

Stores may continue selling plastic toys made with hormone-like chemicals next year, even after a law that was supposed to ban them takes effect, according to a legal decision from the federal agency that oversees consumer safety.

Congress in August passed a sweeping consumer safety bill that virtually bans chemicals called phthalates in products for children under 12. The law takes effect Feb. 10.

Now, however, legal counsel at the Consumer Product Safety Commission says that the phthalate ban doesn't necessarily apply to toys made before Feb. 10. In a letter written Monday, the commission's general counsel says the law lacks a "clear statement of unambiguous intent."

Retailers and manufacturers may sell off their existing inventory of dolls, sippy cups and other children's products, according to the letter from the commission's general counsel, Cheryl Falvey. Neither stores nor toymakers are obligated to label which products meet the new standards and which don't.

Some supporters of the legislation say the agency is undermining the goal of a law meant to protect their children.


Phthalates defined:

Quote:
Phthalates are also frequently used in soft plastic fishing lures, nail polish, adhesives, caulk, paint pigments, and toys made of so-called "jelly rubber." Phthalates are used in a variety of household applications (shower curtains, adhesives, perfume), modern pop-culture electronics and medical applications such as catheters. The most widely-used phthalates are the di-2-ethyl hexyl phthalate (DEHP), the diisodecyl phthalate (DIDP) and the diisononyl phthalate (DINP). DEHP is the dominant plasticizer used in PVC, due to its low cost. Benzylbutylphthalate (BBzP) is used in the manufacture of foamed PVC, which is mostly used as a flooring material. Phthalates with small R and R' groups are used as solvents in perfumes and pesticides.

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TurkGuy19
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like Draykov has said, how will they know exactly when something was made? Is everything going to have to have a "born on" date now, and anything that doesn't have one isn't allowed?

I don't get the big deal anything. My parents grew up with lead pain, lead figures, asbestos, and so much more hazardous stuff, and they are just fine. I chewed on a crib that probably had lead pain on it when I was younger, and I am just fine....well, mostly Wink
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johnsocal



Joined: 26 Mar 2005

PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When it come to selling used items in the next few years, we can all see where this is heading:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121737220325394931.html

Quote:

If you regularly sell items on online auction sites, you may find yourself on the Internal Revenue Service's radar. Recent legislation aims to help the IRS collect more taxes from online enterprises, many of which either don't know about their tax obligations or are ignoring them, according to the agency.

The provision, part of the housing rescue package that President George W. Bush is expected to sign within days, will require PayPal and other processors of online payments to report annual gross receipts to the IRS for all but the smallest online merchants.

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ZombieSolo
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unrelated, though not unexpected.
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johnsocal



Joined: 26 Mar 2005

PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DonSolo wrote:
Unrelated, though not unexpected.


It's related since regulating used items in one form or another will assist in those items being identified when being sold, therefore being trackable and taxable.
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Last edited by johnsocal on Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:20 am; edited 1 time in total
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johnsocal



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wink


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Last edited by johnsocal on Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:13 am; edited 1 time in total
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TurkGuy19
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All it means is that you will have to charge Tax, but, who's tax? The states, or are they going to issue a federal sales tax? Or are they treating it like an income tax?
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johnsocal



Joined: 26 Mar 2005

PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Turkguy19 wrote:
All it means is that you will have to charge Tax, but, who's tax? The states, or are they going to issue a federal sales tax? Or are they treating it like an income tax?


Most likely some type of national online sales tax, but more importantly selling used items will count as income and therefore taxed accordingly.

Current laws for selling used items were not taxable since they were considered depreciated assets and most people had one garage sale every few years (at most) so it wasn't a big deal. Now that people are selling lots of stuff online and some even make a living off it, the government wants to better control online selling so they can go after people who avoid taxes. While the government does have a case to go after people who avoid paying their taxes, most new government regulations like this will certainly over step it's legit boundaries.
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Last edited by johnsocal on Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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ZombieSolo
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exactly what Turk said. Just because these two stories overlap, doesn't mean the ideas are related. I've been expecting Paypal to decide or be forced into reporting transactions for a long time now... especially considering the IRS wants you to tell them how much you earned via yard sales and cashing in your recycling already with your wages. But it's got nothing to do with the CPSC.
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TurkGuy19
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now, tell me this also. In that snipit it said all but the smallest sellers, who is to decide how small is the smallest? $10 total sales, $100 total sales? Who knows.
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johnsocal



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DonSolo wrote:
But it's got nothing to do with the CPSC.


I agree.

I was just pointing out that anytime the government regulates what can and can't be sold on the used market, taxes of some form will 'eventually' be part of the equation. It obviously won't happen right now but give it 3 years or so.
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ZombieSolo
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, I just don't get why you tossed it in the thread about how our bricks are all considered contaminated in a couple years...
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johnsocal



Joined: 26 Mar 2005

PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Turkguy19 wrote:
Now, tell me this also. In that snipit it said all but the smallest sellers, who is to decide how small is the smallest? $10 total sales, $100 total sales? Who knows.


I just found this, but I'll see if I can find some more info:

http://internetbiztaxtips.com/2008/07/paypal-and-ebay-must-report-transactions-to-the-irs/

Quote:

Buried deep in the housing act that was just passed is a provision that requires credit card processors - including companies like eBay and PayPal - to report annual gross receipts of itís merchants to the IRS.

Credit card processors will be required to file Form 1099 for each merchant that has at least $10,000 in gross sales and 200 transactions.

Companies have until 2011 to comply with this new law.

The purpose of this new law is to raise revenue for the housing recovery package and to close the tax gap that exists.† The IRS estimates that it loses billions of dollars in tax revenue from small businesses who under-report (or donít report) income.

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johnsocal



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DonSolo wrote:
OK, I just don't get why you tossed it in the thread about how our bricks are all considered contaminated in a couple years...


I thought they were 'loosely' connected and I didn't feel like starting a new thread Wink
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TurkGuy19
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, that's a whatever to me then. I don't do that much in a year, and most of it is direct cash, no credit cards.
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johnsocal



Joined: 26 Mar 2005

PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Turkguy19 wrote:
OK, that's a whatever to me then. I don't do that much in a year, and most of it is direct cash, no credit cards.


The thing thats concerning is that's only the start. I would expect the initial $10,000 will eventually be changed to a much lower amount once the government creates the infrastructure to monitor and track online transactions on a massive scale within the next few years.
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ZombieSolo
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, with the world ending in 2012 I wouldn't be worried about things too far down the line. Wink
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TurkGuy19
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, seriously, you are sounding like someone with a tinfoil hat that is shining his gun in a bomb shelter full of canned food.
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johnsocal



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now back to the regularly scheduled program Wink

Looks like you will need to get an offical certificate to sell used toys and baby items at a garage sale or swap meet.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28529101/

Quote:
The law also prohibits selling old baby products on line or at a yard sale, without a certificate proving the item has been determined to be lead-free.

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johnsocal



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

DonSolo wrote:
Well, with the world ending in 2012 I wouldn't be worried about things too far down the line. Wink


It didn't know you were Mayan, if not I wouldn't worry about it Very Happy
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johnsocal



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Turkguy19 wrote:
OK, seriously, you are sounding like someone with a tinfoil hat that is shining his gun in a bomb shelter full of canned food.


I might sound that way online, but Im the very opposite of that.

I'm just pointing out that the government will always find a new ways to tax you, nothing more.
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ZombieSolo
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, the Mayans were one of many groups that projected an eventful 2012. They were just kind enough to give a specific date.
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