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ZombieSolo · ... eats you all. [zMOD] Joined: 05 Feb 2005

I think the most responsible way to close it is to turn it into a theme park. But that's me.

Zombie Austin · Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 5:01 pm Post subject:

Let me be the first to say, finally. I'm glad B-Rock is already getting us back on track.
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H3D1 · Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 5:04 pm Post subject:

Good! Finally it goes! And anyway, its not like many rights were observed there!
I like the theme park idea!

Zombie Bizzle · Destroyed! Joined: 12 Dec 2008

ImpairedZombie · Undead! Joined: 30 Dec 2007 Location: Arizona

My views on this stem from Dick Morris:

CloneZomberor · Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 6:17 pm Post subject:

But how many innocent bystanders are still there?
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ThePlasticJedi · Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:09 pm Post subject:

ImpairedZombie · Undead! Joined: 30 Dec 2007 Location: Arizona

KungZombie · ZOMGpire! Joined: 06 Feb 2005 Location: Tucson, Arizona

You might wanna, you know, do at least a little research before you hold up anything you get from Dick Morris as a fact. Razz

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ThePlasticJedi · Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:37 pm Post subject:

Regardless what the facts may or may not be, you are still generalizing. And generalizing is not equal rights.
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)2eady? "A Royale with cheese"

Chew them out and spit them up. It's the way of the Nooblet.

TurkGuy19 · Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:39 pm Post subject:

ThePlasticJedi · Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 9:40 pm Post subject:

That's it! I'm gonna go post all about you in the nationality discrimination thread now Razz

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)2eady? "A Royale with cheese"

Chew them out and spit them up. It's the way of the Nooblet.

Tyrant · Joined: 31 Dec 2007 Location: Indiana

Not that I think Gitmo was the best way to handle that, but what are the real alternatives and what are the plans for the people still held there? The civilian jails and courts are out of the question. So is the plan to still house them at a military base and still try them in some type of military court?

From my understanding (not claiming to be anything close to an expert on international law) they aren't covered by the Geneva convention as they aren't uniformed enemy combatants. I doubt they have any legally afforded rights beyond what we chose to give them. It is similar to when spies are captured. By all rights the one capturing them can do as they please with them including everything from torture to indefinate imprisonment. I'm not saying that is what we should do, but (again barring some misunderstanding I have about this situation which is possible) there's nothing legal saying we can't. I don't think we should do those things but I have been wondering for a while why people keep saying they have assorted right that I'm pretty sure they don't. The military justice system is mostly removed from the civilian justice system and they aren't covered by the Geneva convention (not to mention that they don't follow it at all) so what is their legal argument? Just curious.

Also, to be clear, I am talking about people captured on the battlefields actively fighting against the US. I'm not talking about creative rendition which is highly questionable (as in, I don't think it has a legal leg to stand on) from a legal standpoint. Nor am I talking about known terrorists being captured and turned over to us. I think those two matters are for the civilian courts.

KungZombie · ZOMGpire! Joined: 06 Feb 2005 Location: Tucson, Arizona

People asserting that the detainees have rights are speaking in terms of certain unalienable human rights, not whatever the law books happen to dictate at the time. Detaining people indefinitely, without ever charging them with a crime, while torturing and yadda yadda yadda may be legally permissible, but a lot of folks don't think it's morally permissible.
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RebelZombie · Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:03 am Post subject:

ThePlasticJedi · Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:04 am Post subject:

Tyrant · Joined: 31 Dec 2007 Location: Indiana

KungZombie · ZOMGpire! Joined: 06 Feb 2005 Location: Tucson, Arizona

I think the fundamental mistake in your assessment of the current situation is this: you believe that the people who are being detained at Guantanamo were arrested for an unambiguous act of hostility against the United States. Unfortunately, that's not true -- which is why people want detainees to have a right to public trial. If these people were in fact threatening the national security of the country, then they should definitely be locked up -- but right now, they're being held 'cause the government says so, and can potentially continue to be held 'cause the government says so until either they or the government die of old age. All the human rights folks want is for the government to say "Okay, this guy was being a threat to our national security by supplying Al Qaeda with explosives," and then show convincing evidence of such, so we can go "Oh, okay then. Lock him up."
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obxcrew · Joined: 07 Aug 2008 Location: Norfolk, VA, USA

This is great news. I've never been comfortable with the torture that's occuring there, no matter how despicable the suspected and convicted terrorists that are being held there may be. Never sink to their level.

obxcrew
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Tyrant · Joined: 31 Dec 2007 Location: Indiana

ZombieAthos · Destroyed! Joined: 06 Feb 2005 Location: Nevada

And here, I was thinking political topics were verboten...

Steve
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Big Z · Undead! Joined: 03 Feb 2005 Location: I AM THE HORDEZ

It's being watched, don't worry.
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Tyrant · Joined: 31 Dec 2007 Location: Indiana

I want to be sure that my comments aren't causing escalation or anything like that. I am not trying to stir anything up. I agree with the general sentiment that the situation at Gitmo (and the policies associated with it)needs to change. I am just saying that the two obvious possible changes, put them into the civilian system and let them go, are simply not going to happen no matter who is in office. So, while cheering this on, you should be wondering what will happen instead. That's what I am saying and why I am questioning these things. I think rushing to make changes with no apparent plan (I'm sure there is a plan, but I have no clue what it could be that wouldn't still ruffle lots of feathers) is a bad idea, especially given that lack of planning is a major cause of this problem. From my perspective, we are heading towards "be careful what you wish for" territory.

ThePlasticJedi · Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 6:51 pm Post subject:

Tyrant · Joined: 31 Dec 2007 Location: Indiana

Jedd the Zombie · Undead! Joined: 29 Jan 2007 Location: Singapore

I think Guantanamo Bay signified the heartlessness and paranoia of the Bush era. It's really not wise to send someone to a torture camp based on assumptions, and it's not like torture camps should still exist anyway. Interesting films to watch regarding the subject include the documentary Road to Gunatanamo and Rendition.
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DestructiveZombie · Undead! Joined: 23 Sep 2006 Location: City of Evil, Canada

Masta Lego · Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 7:41 pm Post subject:

As my first post from my long, long hiatus, I'll just say this:

I call shenanigans. If Gitmo closes, they'll open up somewhere else, somewhere in Africa, where NO laws exist.
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Jedd the Zombie · Undead! Joined: 29 Jan 2007 Location: Singapore