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Why Lego doesn't release old UCS sets again ?

 
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Kollektionneur



Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Location: Québec

PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 4:44 pm    Post subject: Why Lego doesn't release old UCS sets again ? Reply with quote

Hi

I wonder if Lego will someday release again old UCS, like the X-Wing or the Tantive 4 : I do not mean a new version, but a version exactly similar to the old one. I have to explain myself : Before 2005, I did not notice that Lego was selling Star Wars sets : I was no lego fan, nor star wars fan. It's been 20 years since the last time I build a set, when I was a child. So I missed the first beautiful UCS sets, and now I don't want to pay 500 or 700 $ to have them.
I've seen online shops that own dozens of Tantive 4 and ask for prohibitive prices to give them away. I would really prefer give 250$ to the Lego company : That way Lego and myself wouldn't lose money.


So I would like to see Lego, someday, sell them again. I doubt any LSW fan would disagree.
On the other hand, it's quite a feeling to see a toy that you have paid 25$ four years ago, to be worth 75 $ today ; that's the way the collections work. But Lego company loses money, and the Tantive 4 is not 20 or 50 years old : such an increasing value in a short time is very odd to me.

What do you think ?




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ZombieDraykov
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Joined: 07 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LEGO has re-released sets in essentially the same format before (7140/7142 X-Wing for example), so it's not impossible. But I imagine production variables are the main determining factor (and those factors probably have a more drastic impact on a larger, more elementally diverse UCS set). Just because they haven't, doesn't mean they won't...but I think they're going to make whatever move they feel will be the most profitable and cost effective.
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AJayIrish



Joined: 29 May 2007
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

do what the rest of us do in your position. swallow the money-pride, and just get them for the aftermarket prices....i would rather lego release NEW sets, than re-hashed ones. now granted, there were a couple of the recent re-release ones like the Sith Infiltrator, boba fett's slave 1, and the mtt, but they were total new designs, to compensate for the shotty looking originals.

i've been playing a continuous game of catch up for the past 18 months, and i've almost gotten to the point where i've acquired all the sets that weren't on shelves when i started, with the exception of the ucs sets.
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alldarker



Joined: 04 Mar 2005
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd say that Lego would probably only ever rerelease the sets which did well in the first place. The problem with UCS sets is that they are targeted at the AFOL's who generally have the money to get these sets in the aftermarket. Secondly these sets probably don't sell so well to the target market: kids and especially their parents. So while regular price rereleases of UCS would go down well with a very select group of AFOL's, but would do very badly in the general market. Seeing as these are big sets, Lego could stand to lose a lot of money in the production of these sets. The risk is just too great.
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mhsdrummer



Joined: 12 Aug 2007

PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

as alldarker said its not the target group....i too missed out on the darth maul bust x-wing and tie interceptor all of which are very cool but most AFOL are willing to pay the after market and or got it before...there are very few of us who actually would go buy the set from lego because most of the hard-core people got it the first time around....not saying that there arent any of us but my guess is that it isnt exactly ceep to start a run of a set especially a UCS with some exclusive/rare pieces
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Kollektionneur



Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Location: Québec

PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've read all your answers, and they are very interesting and quite true, I fear. But, on the other hand, If you consider the price and the number of old UCS that are presently sold each month, you'll have to admit that a lot of people weren't in the first batch of LSW fans and buyers. I wonder if a small release of old UCS, directly sold on SatH would be so expensive to Lego Company. Maybe you're right : Lego prefer to release new UCS, "upgraded" so that all the community of LSW fans would follow, not only the new ones. It makes sense.

Damn ! At least, we'll have a "new" old tie advanced soon...

In fact, I DO have a Tantive 4 and a Tie Interceptor UCS, even an old Republic Gunship : second hand, quite cheap, with box and instructions (I hope for the T4 no missing pieces). But I'd rather like a new box and all the stickers, and the plastic bags ... I'm a true KolleKtionneur ! (sometimes it scares me)... Smile I'm still looking for a X-Wing, a Naboo Fighter, an old ATAT, but I don't have much hope : people sell them on e-bay, now... One of the collectibles pleasure is to search and wait in vain, I guess.
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Duckman



Joined: 08 Nov 2006

PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AJayIrish wrote:
do what the rest of us do in your position. swallow the money-pride, and just get them for the aftermarket prices....i would rather lego release NEW sets, than re-hashed ones. now granted, there were a couple of the recent re-release ones like the Sith Infiltrator, boba fett's slave 1, and the mtt, but they were total new designs, to compensate for the shotty looking originals.

i've been playing a continuous game of catch up for the past 18 months, and i've almost gotten to the point where i've acquired all the sets that weren't on shelves when i started, with the exception of the ucs sets.


well said
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Joedward
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005

PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 6:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When UCS sets are concerned I see it is extremely unlikely that they will ever be re-released, just the way they were. However, even though I already own 7191 UCS X-wing (second hand - eBay) if TLC released a new one, redesigned and covered in awesome, I'd buy it in the blink of an eye. Greatest Star Wars LEGO set ever. I only wish I owned the Y-wing as well, but I think that could have been made much better, and I'm also hoping that the TLC releases the other OT -wings, and A and B-wing like Gareth's would be just so sweet.
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Skafte



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's much more rewarding for a collector to get the original releases as well. If LEGO issued a new batch of 7191 X-wings, I wouldn't consider it as an option for a complete UCS collection. I have recently completed mine, and if one of them were from a new release, I would still be looking for an original one.
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Crusader



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think there may be a market for rereleasing or at least updating some of the older UCS sets. Lego has been making Star Wars sets for going on ten years now. Many of us AFOLS were in their dark age at the start of the license so we missed out on these sets. And I'm sure many of us will agree, just because were adults doesn't mean we have unlimited resources to collect marked up sets.

Not to mention the six year old that got the Droid Escape set back in 2001 wasn't old enough to get a Blockade Runner at the time. Now he's thirteen and is more than capabale of putting it together.
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bigospedros



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is the UCS line particularly successful do you think ? I mean, the AT-ST has been on sale more times than I care to remember.

I guess the counter to that is that some of the UCS sets (ISD, for example) have been around for ages. Is that because they are incredibly successful or is it just because they have lots of stock that they want to get rid of ?

I'm no great collector of UCS sets. I'll get em if they're cheap ... but I'd rather have sets with minifigs in them Smile
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sure the UCS line does sell well. If it didn't do you really think it would have carried on these past 8 years?
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mhsdrummer



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i guess that it is possible for them to re-release remakes of the old sets but not the exact same.... the only way they could do that and not risk a huge loss is to have some sort of pre-order system where you could get it through pre-order only something like that might work but i do agree with the argument that some of us werent around...at the time of the beginning of the license and thus the UCS i was only 7 so forking over a few hundred bucks wasnt at the top of my list it was hard enough to shell out the 80 for the MTT but it was worth every penny not to ramble but i like the original more b/c it has the "lego" look almost something that you could build with a bucket of random bricks and no special pieces but thats just my opinion
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Kollektionneur



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, If I understand well all the answers here, there's many people who'd like to buy new "old like" UCS sets, the Tantive 4 or the X-Wing for example. These people couldn't afford the price at this moment, or did not notice that Lego was selling Star Wars sets. May be Lego should organize a poll to know how much people would be really ready to buy old UCS. And the way described by MhsDrummer to sell these special UCS might be the good one. Interesting
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Dalek Zombie
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 14, 2008 3:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I think LEGO should re-relese old UCS sets. I got two = Yoda and Star Destroyer, but around 2001-2003 I didn't buy any lego atall (I even got rid of those club magazines from that year). But I think LEGO should concentrate on making UCS sets that we haven't got, e.g.
B-Wing,
A-Wing
Imp. Shuttle,
Landspeeder,
Skiff, etc.....
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Greg Hyland



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's a good idea to bring them back. I've talked to several adults who had no interest in LEGO until they saw the UCS X-Wing and/or TIE Interceptor, and then they HAD TO HAVE IT!
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ZombieGIR
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Depending on how old the sets are, they may not even have the molds for some pieces anymore, or at the very least those pieces are no longer in production, so it couldn't be a straight re-release to begin with. Now and updated UCS X-Wing, on the other hand... Idea
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ImpairedZombie
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think Lego gets rid of their molds.
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Iare Zombite
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah they doesn't, but making new ones because old molds do not follow specs is very expensive. $10,000+ per mold expensive...
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Kollektionneur



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think that lego get rid of their molds too, it would be economic madness. Moreover, I don't see a single piece in the Tantive 4 that is an exclusive of that set. Nor the colours : lego has tons of white, red, dark-red bricks on new models. So the molds, the colours, the exclusive pieces are not relevant arguments in our case, I think. The matter form my point of view is the economic interest of such a thing. Maybe lego could do some kind of "pick a brick" for old sets ? That would immediately bring the ruin of the very meaning of collectibles, I fear. The best way is, from my point of view, a "special old edition", each ten years, of one or two UCS, like they have done with the old-new Tie-Advanced for the 10th anniversary of LSW....
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The X-wing has a unique piece, possibly two, not sure.

If TLC do make another X-wing, I'd really appreciate a brick built Astro Droid. It just looks silly with the minifig one.
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Dalek Zombie
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kollektionneur wrote:
I don't think that lego get rid of their molds too, it would be economic madness. Moreover, I don't see a single piece in the Tantive 4 that is an exclusive of that set. Nor the colours : lego has tons of white, red, dark-red bricks on new models. So the molds, the colours, the exclusive pieces are not relevant arguments in our case, I think. The matter form my point of view is the economic interest of such a thing. Maybe lego could do some kind of "pick a brick" for old sets ? That would immediately bring the ruin of the very meaning of collectibles, I fear. The best way is, from my point of view, a "special old edition", each ten years, of one or two UCS, like they have done with the old-new Tie-Advanced for the 10th anniversary of LSW....


What do you mean by "PAB for old sets"? Take all the parts and sell them at stores?

Oh, and at the time, Dark Red was an exclusive coulour for the Tantive IV. It was the first set to have that colour (I think...).
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ricefields



Joined: 27 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kollektionneur wrote:
... But I'd rather like a new box and all the stickers, and the plastic bags ... I'm a true KolleKtionneur ! (sometimes it scares me)... Smile I'm still looking for a X-Wing, a Naboo Fighter, an old ATAT, but I don't have much hope : people sell them on e-bay, now... One of the collectibles pleasure is to search and wait in vain, I guess.


The old at at can be had from ebay at a reasonable price now, closer to the us retail price. Two years ago the prices were in the $200.

My philosophy in collecting is that you also have to willing to sell some of your collection to get the ones you are missing. You must have something of value or do you have a collectible double that you paid cheap for and that you can sell now or trade up to acquire the x wing, or ucs naboo fighter (that should also be cheap now from what I have seen on ebay)? You don't have anything to trade, I guess you have to start investing now or pay through the nose!

I guess you have to see it as a trade and not necessarily a purchase with absolute dollars, because if you do this enough times, you will eventually come to point that you gain enough money and the dilemna will be whether you want to spend all $300 gained from trades on the ucs x wing or to get 30 battlepacks or to get 5 lower priced sets also on your wish list, etc...

I remember it was in this forum that the ucs AT ST was voted by members to be the next released UCS set back several years ago. So who from those days feel sort of bad that this may not have been the best ucs set for Lego to release based on the recent sales and market value and trends. There were no better options I am sure! But the market trends have changed compared to back then.
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mhsdrummer



Joined: 12 Aug 2007

PostPosted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i sort of see your point on selling up but in my opinion the point in a collection is to have everything in that series...of course if funds are an issue then it should be everything that you wnat in the series which brings me to ask y you would sell something in a collection to buy something else in the same collection unless the first thing you only bought b/c you saw the potential price inflation and not b/c you wanted/needed it
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ricefields



Joined: 27 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure if this helps the original poster here because I don't know what's in his collection and what his purchasing habits are but I hope this helps. To answer the last post, for sure I would want to get every set from the same collection and I would only trade up by giving up a set from that same collection if I have a double to sell. I mainly buy and collect star wars but because there IS life outside star wars, I will also buy/invest outside of this theme for trading up purposes to get more star wars lego. For sure I made bad decisions like buying exo force and mars mission which have no value today and might have the same fate as alpha team and orient expedition legos.

As in the post from ufjason, its time to sell those batman legos to get money for 2009 star wars lego sets or to trade up to get one of those oldies you always wanted or rare sets that you missed the first time around. In the case of batman I only had one of each but was willing to give them up, for more star wars legos.
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Darth's Zombie
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just a few points that I want to contribute...

By not having any more production of the older exclusives, Lego drives the AFOL and collectors market to buy the current exclusives. It's the "get-em while they last" mentality. If you are worried that a limited edition set or a Shop-at-Home exclusive will disappear soon, it drives you to buy that set as a priority over getting some of the other more common sets. Many collectors have learned lessons the hard way about missed opportunities and are willing to stretch their budgets a bit to get the latest crop of sets.

Therefore the collectors focus on buying the recent exclusives and the market stays lucrative for Lego's current offerings. The general public that buys the more common sets is large enough that they can survive without the collectors buying multiples of the standard line-up.

This is also why we have seen an increase in the number of exclusives at regular retail sites as well (6212 X-wing, Hoth Base, Spider Droid, etc...). That strategy keeps the collectors focused on one population of sets (and ensures steady sales of the exclusives) while the general pubic continues to buy the regular sets. If they started re-releasing the older limited sets, the sales of the current limited sets would surely decrease. There would be no incentive to buy them now and collectors would pick and chose which sets to buy thinking they can always get a missing set on re-release.

Unfortunately I also think it has contributed to lower than normal sales of Batman and Indy sets. Admittedly, the poor economy has probably had the biggest factor on those lines. However, the collectors value of the Batman sets would be better if there was less focus/priority on SW collector sets.

(Phew! This post ended up much longer than I originally intended.)
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ricefields



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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 12:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darth's Daddy wrote:
Just a few points that I want to contribute...

...the collectors value of the Batman sets would be better if there was less focus/priority on SW collector sets.


I think you are a couple of weeks behind on the value of batman lego. Because of shortage of supply and sold out status on shop@home, the values have hit the roof, while current SW lego set are not currently in high demand on ebay nor in the retail stores, except for a few exclusives like the droid gunship and spider droid, which are all gone. The only batman dud is the new robin/penguin set which I still see one or two on the shelves. I guess you can count the UCS batmobile too. The batman lego buying trend has led to value ratios exceeding some of the best profitable/collectible SW lego sets.

I agree that the exclusives make collectors stretch a little more on their budget. I just bought the republic fighter tank at target at regular price even though I know it might be devalued when the clone battle packs eventually are released. Same victim as the tie crawler. Lego shot themselves in the foot when they had the shadow trooper included in the stormtrooper battle pack. Nobody wanted the tie crawler anymore but there was a short time period when they were in demand before people found out of the battlepacks. On the other hand you cannot blame lego when they want to ensure the masses (kids) have access to reasonable prices and reasonably-priced minifigs and not to just focus on the collectors.
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Darth's Zombie
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lego ended the run of recent Batman sets early (if they even ran them more than one time). Actual shelf time was from June until November (or even October). The artificially limited supply of the Dark Knight sets shot up in value as a result.
But the reason the production run was so short was because of poor shelf sales. These sets sat on the shelf at first since very few of the collectors were buying this time around. (I saw the same sets sitting on the shelf for months at our local stores. Many of them went on sale or clearance.)
They are in demand now because many collectors and even the general public passed them up the first time. They had many opportunities to buy these at MSRP, but it seems like many people just wanted to wait or prioritized elsewhere (like Star Wars). The high prices are a result of new interest as people try to play catch-up.

The first wave of Batman sets were produced at a much higher quantity (or at least for a longer period of time). Until very recently they were trading below or near MSRP. I sold my personal supply of these (for very little money) in order to generate more cash to devote to Star Wars sets. Apparently so did many others since there seemed to be an endless supply on E-bay and Bricklink. Now they have inched up, but not as much as the limited Star Wars and others have (Ultimate Space Battle in December 2005, Dwarve's Mine and Hoth Base in December 2007).

The main point I am making is that by keeping items limited, Lego helps increase demand for current products. The Dark Knight sets are just another example. If they make another wave of new Batman sets in 2009 they will sell better than the 2008 sets did. But if they re-release the 2008 sets, it will decrease the demand for the Batman line in general.
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